Jane
and not one from anyone saying we shouldn't
Etienne
have or have not seen?
Jane
its all PRO vaccination
Etienne
ah
Jane
no one seems to be against it
Etienne
I would leave it up to the parents but ban all the non-vaccinated ones from Disneyland
(that'll teach em)
Jane
hah
i honestly don't understand it
Etienne
I am not vaccinated against Disneyland
so I don't go there
you don't understand why people over-react?
why they take sides?
argue over who is right or knows better?
Jane
i don't understand why they care if someone doesn't want to vaccinate their child
it's their child
Etienne
because it's their child
interfering little bastids
Jane
i do know some horror stories of adverse reactions to vaccines
Etienne
me too
my son reacted badly to Pertussis
scared the SHIT out of his father and I
we did not vaccinate him again
Jane
and the statistics seems to be that the risk factor is actually higher from the vaccine than from the disease
but no one ever says this
Etienne
well the disease was not present
except in the vaccine
until now
it's all relative
if the vaccine takes, you should be ok
Jane
i did go digging a bit for the arguments against it
Etienne
if not, it is your risk
like anti biotics, we go overboard on vaccines
Jane
if what i was reading is true, it's really an imperfect science and we're starting much too early
Etienne
I don't think we have a high rate of death by vaccination
Jane
i just told my doctor to give my kids everything that his kids got
Etienne
but it seems reasonable to let parents decide about giving them to their own kids
I was never vaccinated against Polio
missed that one
Jane
stay the fuck out of dirty water
Etienne
oops...
I am not fond of dirty water
no attraction there
Jane
my friends daughter was paralyzed for a week from an oral polio vaccine
it was very scary
Etienne
that would be scary
Jane
i suppose when you have first hand experience it does make you think
Etienne
I have never been vaccinated against the flu
Jane
me neither
nor would i be
Etienne
I had it once, in college
and it SUCKED
Jane
yes being sick sucks
always
Etienne
that was really being sick
omg...
damn viruses
kill em all
Jane
antibodies are amzing though
Etienne
yes they are
little soldiers
Jane
and nursing mothers protect their babies
Etienne
good mommas
Jane
it's really very fascinating all this hooplah
Etienne
hooray for hooplah!
same argument, different subject
who knows best
who knows at all
Jane
honest to god
Etienne
who just thinks they know
I know I think, but do I think I know?
Jane
i dont know anything anymore
and whats worse
i don't know who to believe
Etienne
is knowing believing?
just squared?
Jane
some serious microbiologists and epidemiologists come down hard against vaccines
and they're so good at sounding like they know what they're talking about
Etienne
ologists are all good at that
it is a course they take in college
Jane
except for psychologists
Etienne
how to sound like you know what your are talking about
101
I took it...oops
so that explains all the dirty looks
Jane
social science is inexact
Etienne
lol
Jane
every one knows this
Etienne
state the obvious
Jane
i do
i am a master of the obvious
Etienne
social realtionships are inexact
so any study of them will be
duh
Jane
if i stick with the obvious then i sound like i know what im talking about :)
Etienne
it seems like you do...
smile
appearances are all that counts
Jane
it is the very inexactness that makes people so damn interesting
Etienne
people are interesting?
Jane
to me they are
Etienne
in a vague and inexact way?
Jane
like my friend posted that a married couple who had agreed not to have children got pregnant
Etienne
what a contradiction...
that is a contradiction from several viewpoints eh?
lol
Jane
yes so what to do right? and the wife wants to have her baby and the husband says you agreed !
Etienne
agree to THIS
Jane
and i thought well hell he should have had a vasectomy
but my friend though the wife should get an abortion
Etienne
fuck that
it is her decision
Jane
it is
Etienne
no one else's
Jane
absolutely
Etienne
and a tough one for her I'm sure
Jane
damn straight
Etienne
so leave her be and let her decide
Jane
write on
so people are damn interesting
to me
we are so much better than we appear to be
being stuck in all this stuff that was put in place by dead people
Etienne
damn those dead people
Jane
stupid dead people
who didn't know what they were doing
Etienne
can't stay in the ground...oh no
we gotta carry around on our shoulders
*them
damn fingers
Jane
this is why zombies are so popular with kids
Etienne
my fingers want to eliminate all pronouns; are they enlightened?
Jane
japanese
Etienne
has their self died?
are my fingers zombies?
Jane
japanese
they don't use pronouns
Etienne
I think I'm turning Japanese...
so desu!
Jane
see zombies represent the lock-step life that people lead because of the way it is set up
Etienne
mindless creatures, in their mindless lives
get up, go to work, strive, strive, strive; go home
Jane
its like chomsky said, they make money scarce so it is all we have time for
Etienne
watch tv
Jane
film has definitely changed the psyche
JK said the psyche does not evolve but i think he is wrong
Etienne
define psyche
Jane
human nature
Etienne
hmmm
I would say it does and it doesn't and at the same time
Jane
oh yeah
this way you can both know and not know
Etienne
we tend to think either I am or I am becoming
but it is both
it seems to me
so there is a child in me that has been here since I arrived
Jane
true
Etienne
and also I have grown
Jane
adapted
been jaded
Etienne
into a marvelous creature
I am not jaded
Jane
im kidding
Etienne
born under a lucky star I guess
because many are
Jane
yes we are both
Etienne
but I have not resisted becoming
Jane
the sun and a star
Etienne
because I am comfortable being
Jane
very becoming
Etienne
smile
truth is inclusive
that is my experience
Jane
nature isn't though
Etienne
it makes sense when I include; I get combative when I exclude
it is
Jane
nature doesn't include airplanes
Etienne
lol
look again
you are excluding epiphenomena
they are a very important part of all of this
Jane
i am excluding inorganic machines
Etienne
the key possibly
Jane
from nature
from nature
not excluding them
Etienne
that is a hasty exclusion
Jane
it's a genus
Etienne
but your right to choose
Jane
its important to see how to look at Life
at its best
to my mind, it is absurd to call an inorganic machine "nature"
Etienne
Nature, in the broadest sense, is equivalent to the natural, physical, or material world or universe.
airplanes are a part of that
Jane
might as well say everything!
Etienne
that is a definition of nature
not my definition
Jane
the nature of something
Etienne
I googled it
so nature does include airplanes
Jane
you put airplanes in there
Etienne
depends on your point of view
Jane
not the dictionary
the dictionary does not necessarily include airplanes
Etienne
lol
how do we get to these points?
Jane
why call anything natural at all if everything is
Etienne
we are arguing over the proper classification for airplanes in the scheme of things
you think we will save the world with this one?
Jane
as an example
Etienne
lmao
Jane
yes yes i think this could make all the difference
as a matter of principle
our place in nature is lost
Etienne
airplanes have a right to go to heaven
Jane
and we are making big mistakes
based on the misunderstanding of ourselves as a part of nature
we are creating major imbalances
which are leading to disasters
is money natural?
it's important
the psyche is important
Etienne
natural versus a part of nature?
Jane
we are evolving
Etienne
money is part of the nature of this reality
it is not necessarily natural
Jane
you know what i mean
Etienne
and you know what I mean
we are keeping it real
Jane
yes but your viewpoint doesn't do any good
thoreau was very big on nature
Etienne
well thanks
Jane
its just laissez faire
Etienne
I feel so much better now
I am now below lazy fari
fair
Jane
its an argument worth having
Etienne
I am lazy gutter now
not even at the fair
The Bard
subfaire
Jane
unfair
Etienne
yes you are
Jane
you're deliberately misunderstanding me
Etienne
you are so mean to me
(cries)
Jane
crying is unfair
Etienne
crying is natural
like airplanes
Jane
you're right
i always lose this argument
it doesn't make Thoreau wrong though
Etienne
giggles
Jane
it's fine
you can't help it if you're underevolved
Etienne
lol
damn straight
Jane
lol
Etienne
I don't want to get evolved
Jane
i want to be completely natural
Etienne
or is it involved?
Jane
in every way
Etienne
oh well
not into volved
Jane
i feel better now
i know what i want
Etienne
clean windows?
Jane
those too
Etienne
you abandoned your post in Alone2gether and Anthony has taken it
you snooze...
Jane
i had a glitch in the network
Etienne
damn those glitches!
Jane
you know how they say undo what you did
well the last thing i had done was joined your group
and so i undid it
Etienne
damn it
Jane
and my glitch went away
Etienne
you are not evolved enough yet for that group
Jane
apparently not
Etienne
don't be fooled by appearances
Jane
or overly evolved
Etienne
(see story above)
The Bard
causation and correlation do not always match up
Etienne
no they are two different words
The Bard
lol
Etienne
(giggles)
Jane
have y'all read Paul's blog on social change?
Etienne
no
I will not be reading it either
The Bard
nope
Jane
the thread is evolving nicely
The Bard
vovle
Etienne
hooray for hooplah
The Bard
volve
Etienne
I don't even read my own blog
Jane
it's very much in the mode of even if you're not the sun you're still a star
the question of "transformation"
the whole don't vaccinate
let nature take its course attitude
the trust necessary to allow a complete stranger to inject something into your child
i definitely weigh in on the side of sattva
Etienne
bodhisattva
embodiment of truth
Jane
bodhi stared at a wall for 8 years
people passed him
they called him darjuna
to Thoreau, if we aren't all natural, then none of us are
Etienne
truth emerges
as an epiphenomenon
piesalo
Jane
what do you mean by that?
Etienne
(think about it)
by what?
Jane
epic?
Etienne
no
epi
Jane
piesalo is that the writer who created alter egos?
Etienne
piensalo
it means think about it
in spanish
Jane
and they found them in a trunk
oh oh its not a reference point
Etienne
it is a phrase
Jane
right
so distinguish for me what epi does to a phenom?
Etienne
an epiphenomenon is one that emerges from another
Jane
yes yes like all those stupid dead guys who set us up
the transcendentalists were reactionarys
they were against the european cultural hangover
thoreau made it a point to think social manners affectations
Etienne
no
dead guys don't qualify
Jane
society is emerging
Etienne
remember the other day when we were talking about self?
Jane
what part
Etienne
and I said that self is energy bound to matter?
Jane
yes
Etienne
from which consciousness emerges?
consciousness is an epiphenomenon
Jane
(this network could be called the self network we talk about it so much)
Etienne
lol
Jane
this doesn't exclude society
Etienne
no
nothing is excluded
Jane
society can be an epiphenomenon too
emerging from history
with stupid dead guys making bad choices
as soon as the very idea of a bad choice exists
without even having made a bad choice
the exclusion begins
like all my Christian friends who want to "kill all of ISIS"
i feel such an oddball when everyone gets bloodthirsty on facebook
and the next post they're all like "we love Jesus"
i don't think they can have it both ways
but they do
Etienne
that is a stretch to applying the term
Jane
which term?
Christian?
Etienne
epiphenomenon
Jane
oh oh
Etienne
the topic way back when...
before we got to Christianity and ISIS
Jane
i think im zoning in on the exclusive
if the dead guys did make bad choices from which we are still suffering
and will continue to suffer
it seems to me that it is not just a phenomenon
whats more i think it is important to understand ourself
in all of these positions
born into a preexisting condition that was unnatural
just because some people made some bad decisions before we were born
and my Christian friends are a classic example of it
because they do not see any contradiction between their faith and war
or as Patricia says in the social change thread
"There is nothing new under the sun."
so there is the we-need-social-change school of thought
thoreau saw it ocming
and there is the what-a-bunch-of-dreamers school of thought
Etienne
Patsy is plagiarizing Solomon
Jane
she sited it
quoted more too
but that was the heart of the point
or as Paul says "Are you saying this is a waste of time?"
Etienne
you lost me
what is a waste of time?
Jane
and Peter says to "sum it up"
do wah diddy diddy dum didi do
social change Sandhi
i think they're adhering to the antipolitics of JK
he didn't support Gandhi
he thinks reform is group think
someone always brings fear into it too
"You have nothing to fear but fear itself."
Etienne
social change...
Jane
it's pretty hard to argue that social change is not urgent
Etienne
if Gandhi's goal was to bring peace to India, he failed
was he only interested in making it an independent country?
not likely
Jane
he was interested in doing the right thing
The Bard
these songs of freedom, redemption songs, these songs of freedom, songs of feedom
Etienne
I suppose but I am not going to speculate on his motives
Jane
it all started when he was treated as a minority in South Africa
Etienne
yes I am familiar with the story
Jane
and as a Lawyer it was actually his job
if Lawyers did their job
and fought for justice
like Atticus
he told his kids he was going to lose
and they're like why fight?
and he said because if i don't then i don't have any right to be raising children
Etienne
if consciousness is an emergent phenomenon....
then...
lol
sorry, couldn't resist
Jane
then what?
Etienne
then it is not all there is to self now is it?
Jane
and what can we deduce from this premise
Etienne
but it would appear to be...
Jane
the psyche evolves
Etienne
if, then, but, however
Jane
in the thread JK says the unconscious is much stronger than the conscious
Etienne
nonetheless, in spite of
I am not conscious of this disparity
albeit, therefore
I don't know what "psyche" refers to
it is a dubious term
Jane
human nature
you're the psychologist
what is your field?
Etienne
human nature is more than a mental conception
my field?
Jane
the psyche
Etienne
I am not here as a psychologist, first of all
I have retired from that profession
am I annoying you?
my field?
Jane
i only meant that psyche is not a vague term
Etienne
seriously?
and I was telling you my problem with it...
Jane
yes
i see
Etienne
when you jumped me
Jane
the mentality thing
Etienne
so now I am thinking you are annoyed
Jane
no
Etienne
and I will just let you continue
Jane
continue what?
Etienne
whatever
Jane
we're back where we started from
Etienne
I will just watch
Jane
why?
the question of social change bogged down in the question of self ...
a lot of the problem is with seeing the unity of humanity
so that social change to transcendentalists is just going from one holy ground to another
in the blog Kant says it is only an illusion because you're trying to change it.
Jane
So in order to change society we have to lose the image of society as in need of change
reminds me of keeping your head when all around you are losing theirs and blaming it on you
did Kant get the last word?
Etienne
a drive by blogging?
I feel I have been blogged
(giggles)
Dave
(chuckles)
Etienne
hey Dave
Dave
hello
Etienne
how's it?
Dave
oh ok
Etienne
cool
rockin and rollin here in Los Angeles
the town is just now waking up
The Bard
earthquakes again? ;-)
Etienne
music
The Bard
nice
Dave
the freeways filling up, or are they always that way?
Etienne
the freeways here are packed
doing ninety
24/7
we have motorcycle flash mobs now
to make it interesting
Dave
a new thing?
Etienne
yeah
sometimes dangerous
Dave
I can imagine
Jane
LA had trolleys. GM, Goodyear and Standard Oil bought them and trashed them.
The Bard
motorcycle flash mobs, the human expression seeks expression, there is no cure for curiosity
Jane
in fact, they bought trolleys in major cities all around america and there are trolley graveyards of what were once perfectly good, brand new, trolleys systems
and all those cities now have tremendous transportation problems
a good example of stupid guys in history making bad decisions
traffic is an epiphenomenon
Etienne
not quite
that is a misuse of the term
Jane
what is a good term for it?
Etienne
a serious social problem?
Jane
bad decisions in history reverberating through society
Etienne
in the case of an epiphenomenon, it emerges but has no causal impact on that from which it emerges
so for example, a physical thing might have a mental "thing" emerge from it, but the mental "thing" can't then create or cause a phsycial thing to emerge from it
so it is a specific type of relationship
in which normal patterns of causality don't apply
Jane
airplanes emerged
from a mental thing
Etienne
I give up
Jane
i don't understand
Etienne
I withdraw the term
Jane
terms are so important
if we don't name it, it's like it isn't there
there probably isn't a word for it
ive noticed this with studying french
it explains a lot of things
about what we call things
somethings are left deliberately ambiguous
then we don't have to do anything about it
your fruits blog is lovely, @Etienne
Etienne
in Alone2gether?
Jane
yes
Etienne
technically that is a discussion but thanks
I am enjoying that group
Jane
i like how you said "human nature" changes when we're not paying attention
Etienne
attentiveness changes does cause a shift in how we understand ourselves and so it changes how we behave as well
The Bard
works with his hands, the practical element of matter working with matter...dome thing that holds interest to me..though now i mostly type
Etienne
so in that sense human nature is on ongoing thing with a keyboard
The Bard
makes more sense than the predestined idea, oh yes
Jane
what part do you think the unconscious plays in justifying oneself for being a jerk?
if any
Etienne
I would first have to define unconscious
Jane
well i ask because you say that it is a subtle ego thing
Etienne
my view of consciousness is not the standard view
so my view of unconsciousness is not the standard either
Jane
i always feel bad for the ego when it has to take the hits for misbehaving
Etienne
if you are still referring to the discussion, my point there was that attentiveness changes the picture
it is not an effort then to stop
it is just what happens
the ego has it's uses
I am not anti ego
I have a huge one myself
smile
Jane
do you have a huge unconscious?
Etienne
no
I don't seem to have any unconscious
not one I can find anyway
Jane
oh right
you don't dream
i forgot
The Bard
damndest thing
Etienne
no, I don't
I am used to it now
it did bother me a bit as a kid
but my dad explained it in a way that I was satisfied with
so I let it go
Jane
what'd he say
Etienne
he said that dreams come from unresolved issues in the mind and I didn't have any
Jane
nice
so the unconscious is nothing but issues
is that your theory?
Etienne
issues we don't want to deal with perhaps
it is a file
where we put things and never look again
Jane
that's what my friend Alice says too
Etienne
it seems this is what is happening
Jane
Alice has visions
Etienne
and so it accumulates
Jane
have you heard of active imagination?
Etienne
yes; is there such a thing as inactive imagination?
Jane
well i think it refers more to her visions
like a dream only she's awake
the imagination coming directly from the unconscious
Etienne
right
Jung first extrapolated this idea
Jane
passive imagination is like writing a story
Etienne
it has developed from there
Jane
so do you think that is also a function of unresolved issues?
Etienne
active imaging is a technique
it has been developed in other societies as well
and has deep roots in some traditions
is having techniques, based on deeply rooted traditions, an unresolved issue?
Jane
like a dream
Etienne
it seems more like a long standing ritual
as to rituals; if it works, do it again
if it doesn't work, don't do it again
Jane
i don't know how to activate it
Etienne
well, some cultures use psychotropics
others use meditation
I would say experiment
see what works for you
Jane
when i first read about it, i had an interesting encounter with my anima
Etienne
if you are encountering your anima, I would say you have active imagination
it is in progress; no need to rev it up
just go with it
Jane
yes but he immediately went back underground again
Etienne
ah
I turned to look and he was gone
Jane
good to have met him though
one sees how one undermines oneself
Etienne
I can only speculate
Jane
you have good solid theories
Etienne
I have a healthy and active imagination but no unconscious
so I make do
I don't have visions or dreams
Jane
what is your anima like?
Etienne
but I see clearly
what you see is what I am
there is no inner me
it is me thru and thru
top to bottom
side to side
Jane
so you're the anima and the animus united?
Etienne
those terms don't really work for me
Jane
that's what i meant
Etienne
I am familiar with Jung
Jane
there is no duality
Etienne
duality is how all this works
but there is no need to assume that is all there is to it
here again, human nature will assume this if I am not being attentive
Jane
i meant the internalized gender duality
Etienne
there is a biological basis to that duality
we are all just percentages of both
Jane
im glad we're talking about this
Etienne
we are conditioned to see this differently
that The Bard and dave are dudes
and we are chicks
that is a social construct
an appearance
Jane
in fact im really a guy
Etienne
lol
Kris Jenner, is that you/
?
Jane
lol
Etienne
(giggles)
Jane
goodone
The Bard
lol
Jane
i was thinking about how we can make marriage work by having teams do a single job
together
Etienne
as long as my team is not me and my husband
Jane
i think especially where checks & balances are needed because there are so many externalities involved in
Etienne
it might work
Jane
fang
Etienne
our marriage has worked by not teaming up
35 years in july
Jane
i understand
some guys are super independent
Etienne
it wasn't him
it was me
Jane
im from michigan
Etienne
but we worked it out
it is not a conventional marriage
but it is a solid one
Jane
when y'all say y'all, we say you guys
Etienne
he did threaten to divorce me once
Jane
oh dear
Etienne
I wasn't impressed and he dropped it
Jane
what did you do
Etienne
I said whatever
Jane
you're funny
Etienne
smile
Jane
after my divorce i went back to being what i was
before i was a wife
Etienne
which was?
Jane
yes
twas
tis
independent
mates open the budget / two incomes are better than one
Etienne
I love him and he loves me so it's all good
we made a beautiful child who grew into a fine young man
the story continues to unfold
my son now talks about having kids
he told me he will name them "really" and "seriously"
Jane
all my friends are grammas now
Etienne
I am not a gramma
Jane
ive always been a gramma
my animus is strong
my poor anima didn't have a chance and he is pissed
Etienne
lol
Jane
to see anger as always a sense of being wronged
there is a question of justice
Etienne
were I to have an anima it would resemble a beast from Revelations
Jane
with many crowns
Etienne
seven heads and ten horns
seeking whom I might devour
Jane
my friend posted a salad on fb today that was beautiful
avocado, lettuce, and parsley green with red tomatoe
it was so pretty
i used to bring in salads like that for lunch and the people there said "you make it look so good"
i haven't had a camera since i was married
i miss it the most
the biggest problem for the homeless is they are exhausted
they have literally nowhere to sleep
when it is a child it is a terrible pattern to get stuck in
so many of them what is wrong with society?
this seems like priority 1
to me
and i don't understand why i am all alone in it
they will all have to live with each other when we are gone
this is how we are evolving
just getting along
Etienne
you are not alone
Jane
we can't be better at it when we aren't even any good at it
The Bard
goodnight all, l rest well when you go
Etienne
there are people who are working on the homeless problem
it is a daunting task
but many do what they can
Dave
night Joe
Jane
no one ever says those poor exhausted people ever
ever
they should have napping houses for people to have a clean safe place to rest ...
many of those who are homeless weeks upon weeks never catch up , they aren't there because they are crazy,
they're there because they're poor,
what makes them crazy is the utter sleeplessness
the whole family loses your job with you
if you lose your position, then it can be over
the average minimum wage earner is 36 years old
scrape
its true what forster says in howards end
an annuity makes all the difference
stephen says the same thing in a room of one's own
if she kept her name
Nixon was right.
The answer is negative income.
He got his idea from Edward via Margaret & Helen.
it's crazy how many empty houses there are that need work
it is crazy how many people there are who need work that could fix them if they lived there
the homeless are treated as if they can't even feed themselves
the dolers doling it out never befriend anyone ever
there is one church that has the homeless always available if you need work done at your home
and the church will pay for the job being done
and no one hires them
all you have to do is show up and take someone with you, they make a daily wage of $10 and are lined up to get that much, means so much
and you don't pay them the $10
the church does
my church has breakfast every sunday morning for anyone who comes
and we always have more than 100
and they don't go to church
the church gets out in the middle of the meal and lots of the churchgoers join in
Etienne
time for bed jane
sleep well when you go
Jane
good night
Etienne
g'night
Jane
the natural thing is crucial
Thoreau was almost never wrong. He didn't try to say anything too important.
befriending is not a thing that people have time for anymore,
or can afford to dine for,
and all the rest of it,
we'd like to see those people happy that are enjoying our largesse
they should show us they are the beautiful people
spread their agenda all over social media
everyone else does
the obvious thing is the structure of our confederacy this is what we're not acknowledging, europe is confederating too now ... because a Union is a Confederacy that's why Corporations don't like them, the balance of power is slightly shifting away from the responsible to the responsible
Labor Managing
it is entirely capitalist even if the capitalists feel that they are making too great a sacrifice
capitalism has never really been tried
truth is
"Our role is not to punish. The punishment is the prison sentence: They have been deprived of their freedom. The punishment is that they are with us,"
Yesterday
Etienne
giving and receiving
and the energy that binds that
The Bard
yes
Etienne
he writes back to me that he doesn't believe in coincidences
and can't say what caused him to write to his old house out of the blue
just a feeling of nostalgia for a better time in his life perhaps
before things started going wrong
the irony being most of my neighbors would have seen the letter came from a prison and thrown it away
Beefcake
Wrong!
Etienne
several people who I have told about this, have told me I am crazy to write to him
and to let him write to me
if the letter had said something like "if you still live there when I get out I am coming for you"...
I might not have replied
(or perhaps I would have...smile)
The Bard
lol
Etienne
but the letter was a very interesting statement about his life, his search for understanding
his sincere desire to "get it"
The Bard
did he go boethian?
Etienne
I am inclined to answer that sort of letter regardless of where it comes from
boethian? are you referring to Boethius?
The Bard
yes
Etienne
he is leaning heavily on God at the moment
The Bard
ok
Etienne
but many in prison do
but he is also very open and sincer
The Bard
makes sense
Etienne
e
The Bard
nice
Etienne
and he wants to explore some ideas I presented to him
so I will write back
The Bard
excellent
Etienne
he has declared he is my friend for life
so there is a movement back and forth and there is a field in which this movement occurs
giving and receiving
The Bard
that all meets what is my experience of this, in the sense the field is the mover of information or someting like this
Etienne
the field facilitates the movement
The Bard
ok good distinction
Etienne
if I am not open to this, I would have most likely thrown the letter away
if he is not open to this, he may not have written the first letter
The Bard
right
Etienne
he may not know what it is he is open to
but he opened to it nonetheless
he can't say why,
but he followed the urge to write to "whomever it may concern" at his old address
I still laugh at that
I wrote back, 'to whom it may concern' would be me
and it does concern me
remove all doubt
smile
The Bard
yeah
Etienne
hello jane
Jane
hi
Cheesecake
How can we help?
!
Etienne
I was just talking about my new pen pal
Jane
from where?
Etienne
he is in prison
Jane
that sucks
Etienne
he wrote to his old address, my house
addressed it to "to whom it may concern"
Jane
nobody cares about prisoners
Etienne
I wrote back and he sent me a thank you card and a much longer letter
I received them today
I will continue writing to him
Jane
what's he in for?
Etienne
he is 5 years into 35 for armed robbery
beefcake
Who cares?
Etienne
drug related
Jane
racism really shows up in the justice system
http://mic.com/articles/109138/sweden-has-done-for-its-prisoners-what-the-u-s-won-t
being good
Justice system is based on money.
Jane
the US has 5% of the world's people and 25% of her prisoners
beefcake
Test
Testing
Jane
if only we could think like this here: "Our role is not to punish. The punishment is the prison sentence: They have been deprived of their freedom. The punishment is that they are with us,"
beefcake
Testinging.:-)
there is no political solution.
The Bard
so not a rubberband but a connection not action/reaction but interaction
with openness mmany possibilities open up
beefcake
So what?
Who knows.
Bye
Etienne
there is no compulsion to join in any convo
obviously
to join in just to criticize seems counter-productive
it is an open room
anyone can chat with anyone
The Bard
i am out for the night, cya all
Jane
i am a patriot
they have made me love America
thoreau befriended americans
he learned dialects of algonquin
including mohave on staten island, iroquois, and the massachusetts
he was a descendant of Canada, courier du bois,
the woodsmen who saturated the continent for 100 years after columbus
trading for furs to make hats for cold europeans
as a patriot, i worry about us soooooooo much
i want us to be more fair
it seems to be asking a lot
i am not alone in this, the new internationalism doesn't take, one does feel that our first priority should be this economy
and then it is a matter of how far you want to go with that
the bootstraps terrify me
funny thing is they would be right if the world was as fair as the think it is
bless their little hearts
the extremists are always victims projecting with strong freudian delusions
the passion for patriot politics astonishes me how people say let's kill each other's sons over this land
you see these movies and the passion of the politics but this should not happen ... we are smarter than this... lets have it in theater , let it satisfy us on dvd >>> videos of ninja ski mask people is just so sigh, it is what Thoreau foresaw
he tried to tell us
social media tells us what we dont want to know
one is constantly second guessing
we have better options
we have higher priorities
if we could just Mr.Brown
that would be something
Jane
say anything
Etienne
anything
Dave
anything
Etienne
we are a co-operative group eh?
Dave
chuckles
Etienne
certainly willing to say anything...
smile
Jane
thoreau did what washington did
he was a surveyor
washington used his skill to plan battlefields
thoreau was the county assessor
he could tell you how high your mountain was and how deep your pond was
and if you were selling property
he was your man
and if you were buying property
he was your man
he actually experimented with lead, made the # systerm on pencils
had an exhibit for artists in Boston
and went home and took up tutoring and surveying
he liked hiking around outside after he got his degree
he went to Harvard on his father's pencil factory
he felt he had fulfilled an obligation to the enterprise
he Loved because he had other options,
he could have made pencils
story goes: he showed Emerson his poetry and he was not impressed so Henry burned it?
please be impressed unless it is really bad
Henry was tutor to Emerson's children.
He was at Meg's wedding. Perhaps he was Laurie?
enjoying the respect inferred upon a harvard grad
Winona had a lot of fans at that showing.
gangs of young men eating popcorn
Henry was tutor to Emerson's children. He was at Meg's wedding. Perhaps he was Laurie?
christianBALE got his part in the susanSARANDAN as marmeeMARCH edition.
with four daughters marching through town, through orchards, and sunfields,
wilderness
all about
i cried when he came out of the cupboard at The Pickwick Club
the whole being a part of nature is so important in the basic sense
we need to decide what basic nature means
this is all zen does really
to oversimplify
and yet somehow state the case
it manifests as an obsession with materials from nature
i.e., not plastic
nothing with a polymer
is that right?
that was a total guess
was Thoreau as much of a transcendentalist as Alcott?
almost certainly not,
not even as much as was Emerson in his way ...
and in Paris the impressionist were becoming two dimensional
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